MILLIONS OF AMERICANS ARE AT RISK OF LOSING HEALTHCARE COVERAGE BECAUSE OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S DOMESTIC POLICY LAW.

A SIMILAR POLICY WAS IMPLEMENTED IN ARKANSAS SEVEN YEARS AGO, AND HAVING SEEN HOW DAMAGING IT CAN BE ON LOW INCOME AND DISABLED RESIDENTS, LAWYER AND FOUNDER OF NONPROFIT TECTONIC JUSTICE, HE LET THE CASE INTO THE 19 TO OVERTURN THE RULES.

ABOUT THIS.

>> THANKS FOR SPEAKING TO US.

WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE OF MEDICAID WORK REQUIREMENTS IN ARKANSAS AND HOW DOES THAT TRANSLATE INTO WHAT WILL LIKELY HAPPEN IN THE REST OF THE UNITED STATES?

>> BACK IN 2018, ARKANSAS WAS THE FIRST STATE TO EVER IMPLEMENT WORK WORK REQUIREMENTS FOR MEDICAID.

WE SAW LAWSUITS OF 18,000 PEOPLE LOSING COVERAGE IN ONLY FIVE MONTHS OF THE WORK REQUIREMENTS WITH MANY MORE THREATENING IF THEY CONTINUED.

WE WERE ABLE TO PUT A STOP THROUGH THE COURT PROCESS IN LAWSUITS.

NOW, WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE RECONCILIATION BILL IS THE REPUBLICATION --REPUBLICANS HAVE MANDATED THAT EVERY STATE IMPLEMENT THESE TRI-COUNTY AND CUTS WHICH ARE GOING TO BOOT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE OFF OF MEDICAID AND MAKE THEM LESS HEALTHY AND CAUSE CHAOS TO THEIR HEALTH SYSTEMS AND SOCIAL SERVICES SYSTEMS AND JUST END UP IN WIDESPREAD DISASTER AND CHAOS.

>> OKAY.

SO, LET'S ASSUME --THE STEEL MAN DEFENSE FOR US AGAIN FOR THE OTHER SIDE.

THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO PROPOSE THIS IN ARKANSAS AND ARE DOING THIS FOR THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

THEY ARE THINKING THEIR BEST CASE THINKING, LISTEN, WE WANT TO CUT DOWN FRAUD AND WASTE.

THEY SAY, LOOK.

WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE BACK TO WORK AND WE DON'T THINK THAT IT IS ONEROUS TO SAY THAT IF YOU ARE ABLE-BODIED THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE SOMETHING TO OUR ECONOMY TO BE ABLE TO GET SOME OF THESE BENEFITS.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT THINKING OR HOW IT WAS IMPLEMENTED IN ARKANSAS?

>> FIRST OF ALL, 92% OF MEDICAID BENEFICIARIES ALREADY WORK AND HAVE CAREGIVER RESPONSIBILITIES AND GO TO SCHOOL OR HAVE DISABILITIES.

THERE'S ACTUALLY NO PROBLEM HERE.

THE REAL FRAUD IS THAT YOU WOULD DESIGN A SYSTEM TO CUT PEOPLE OFF BENEFITS IN MASS SKILLS.

OF PEOPLE.

AND FORCE THEM TO BE LESS HEALTHY SO THEY ARE LESS ABLE TO WORK AND LESS ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN COMMUNITY AND LESS ABLE TO DO THE THINGS WE ALL WANT OUT OF A DECENT LIFE.

THERE WERE STUDIES DONE IN ARKANSAS THAT SHOWED THAT THE WORK REQUIREMENTS --THESE PENALTIES DID NOTHING TO ACTUALLY INCREASE EMPLOYMENT.

IN FACT, THEY WERE CORRELATED WITH A DECREASE IN EMPLOYMENT.

PEOPLE NEED TO BE HEALTHY IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO WORK.

THINK ABOUT LOW-WAGE WORKERS PRODUCING A GAS STATION ATTENDANCE.

CERTIFIED NURSING ATTENDANTS WHO WORK IN NURSING FACILITIES OR PEOPLE'S HOMES.

RESTAURANT SERVERS OR DISHWASHERS OR LINE COOKS.

LANDSCAPERS.

DAY LABORERS.

ALL OF THESE JOBS REQUIRE IMMENSE PHYSICAL EXERTION.

YOU HAVE TO BE ON YOUR FEET ALL DAY.

YOU HAVE TO LIFT THINGS AND LIFT PEOPLE.

IF YOU ARE NOT HEALTHY --IF YOU HAVE AN ANKLE OR WRIST PROBLEM, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS WORK, AND SO, THESE PENALTIES HAVE IT ALL BACKWARDS.

IF YOU HAVE MEDICAID, YOU CAN GO GET THE TREATMENT YOU NEED TO BE HEALTHY SO THAT YOU CAN WORK AND OTHERWISE PARTICIPATE FULLY IN COMMUNITY AND THE LIFE THAT WE ALL WANT FOR OURSELVES.

>> I JUST WANT TO DOCUMENT THIS.

I'VE CREATED WEBSITES WHERE SOMEONE CAN GO IN AND SUBMIT THEIR PROOF OF WORK.

WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT?

WHY IS THE PEOPLE WORK ONEROUS?

HAVE THERE BEEN STUDIES THAT LOOK AT THE LAYER OF BUREAUCRACY AND WHAT THAT DOES IN TERMS OF KICKING PEOPLE OFF WHO DESERVED THE CARE?

>> YET BASICALLY YOU'RE BURIED UNDER AVALANCHES OF PAPERWORK.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED IN ARKANSAS.

THESE ARE DISINGENUOUS PEOPLE OFFERING DISINGENUOUS POINTS.

THE WAY THAT PEOPLE LOSE COVERAGE IS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T PROCESS TO ESTABLISH THAT YOU ARE ALREADY DOING WHAT THE PROGRAM SAYS YOU SHOULD CONTINUE TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR, WHICH IS WORK OR VOLUNTEER OR TAKE CARE OF OTHER PEOPLE AND WHATNOT, AND FOR EXAMPLE, IN ARKANSAS, I WAS A LEGAL AID ATTORNEY, SO I HELPED HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE --MY TEAM AND I HELPED HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE DIRECTLY TRYING TO MAINTAIN THEIR ELIGIBILITY AND THOUSANDS MORE TO COMMUNICATION EFFORTS.

FIRST, WE DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW IF YOU ARE ON THE TYPE OF MEDICAID SUBJECT TO THE WORK REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE IN MANY STATES, MEDICAID IS NOT CALLED MEDICAID.

IT IS CALLED SOMETHING ELSE.

IN ARKANSAS, IT WAS ARKANSAS CHOICES OR ARKANSAS HOME OR ARKANSAS WORKS OR VARIOUS OTHER NAMES.

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THIS APPLIES TO YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE.

IF IT DOES APPLY TO YOU, YOU MIGHT GET 10 PAGE LETTERS THAT SOMEBODY LIKE MYSELF WHO IS A LAWYER AND WHO HAS PRACTICED LAW.

THE HARD TO UNDERSTAND.

IF YOU TRY TO CALL TO GET MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT THE LETTER IS ACTUALLY SAYING, YOU WAIT FOR HOURS.

THEY MAY NOT PROVIDE YOU RELEVANT INFORMATION, THAT YOU NEED TO COMPLY.

MAYBE YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH AND COMPLETED THE WEBSITE, AND THOUGHT YOU DID WHAT YOU HAD TO DO TO KEEP COVERAGE.

THAT WAS ONLY GOOD FOR ONE MONTH AND YOU HAVE TO DO IT EVERY MONTH OR YOU GOT AN EXEMPTION THAT SAID YOU ARE GOOD FOR TWO MONTHS, BUT NOW, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER IN THE THIRD MONTH TO GO BACK AND SIGN- ON.

IF YOU DIDN'T LOG IN IN THE LAST 30 DAYS, YOU ARE LOCKED OUT OF YOUR ACCOUNT AUTOMATICALLY AND YOU HAVE TO CALL SOMEBODY TO GO AHEAD AND GET PERMISSION TO BASICALLY RESET ON THEIR SIDE SO THAT YOU CAN ENTER THE WEBSITE AGAIN.

IN ARKANSAS'S CASE, THE WEBSITE CLOSED EVERY DAY AT 9:00 P.M.

SO YOU JUST HAVE THESE FLOODS RED TAPE THAT YOU HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH AND REPUBLICANS VERY WELL NOW --ANY PROPONENT OF WORK --OF THESE PENALTIES NO --THAT FOLKS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO JUMP THROUGH ALL THE HOOPS AND THAT THEY WILL GET TRIPPED UP AND THAT THEY WILL LOSE COVERAGE.

THAT IS WHAT JUSTIFIES THE COST SAVINGS IS THAT YOU ARE KICKING PEOPLE OFF COVERAGE.

>> WHEN SOMEONE SAYS, OH, THERE'S 18,000 PEOPLE IN ARKANSAS.

IT BECOMES AN OBJECTION.

HE WROTE ABOUT IN --AN INDIVIDUAL NAMED ADRIAN.

>> HE WAS IN HIS LATE 30s AND RIGHT AROUND 40.

HE HAD JUST GOT HIS BEST EFFORT PAYING JOB, WORKING AT EIGHT POULTRY PLANT IN NORTHWEST ARKANSAS AND IT PAID BETTER THAN A LOT OF THE LOW-WAGE MINIMUM WAGE JOBS HE HAD BEFORE AND HE WAS WORKING OKAY.

HE REPORTED HIS WORK REQUIREMENT COMPLIANCE, AS WAS REQUIRED, AND SUDDENLY, HE GOES, AND HE GOES TO THE PHARMACY AND IS TOLD THAT HE HAS TO PAY FOR HIS MEDICINES FOR HIS CHRONIC OBSTRUCTIVE PULMONARY DISORDER OR COPD.

ADRIAN ASKED WHY?

I HAVE MEDICAID.

YOU'VE BEEN CUT OFF.

SO ADRIAN WALKED OUT WITH HIS COPD MEDICATIONS.

SURE ENOUGH, HIS COPD WHICH HE STRUGGLED WITH FOR YEARS KICKED IN AND HE ENDED UP IN THE HOSPITAL MULTIPLE TIMES IN A SHORT TIMEFRAME.

THE EMPLOYER TRY TO ACCOMMODATE HIM FOR WHAT THEY COULD BUT EVENTUALLY HE MISSED SO MUCH TIME THAT THE EMPLOYER HAD TO LET HIM GO.

HE DIDN'T GET HIS INSURANCE BACK UNTIL WE AT LEGAL AID OF ARKANSAS STEPPED IN AND GOT IT BACK BUT BY THAT TIME IT WAS TOO LATE.

HIS JOB WAS LOST AND HIS HEALTH WORSENED.

HE WOULD STRUGGLE AMONG VARIOUS MINIMUM WAGE JOBS.

NEVER EVER RETURNING TO THE LEVEL OF INCOME THAT HE HAD OF THE JOB AT THE POULTRY PLANT AND SADLY CUP ADRIAN PASSED AWAY LAST NOVEMBER.

THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF THE REAL- LIFE CONSEQUENCES OF THESE PENALTIES IS MR. McGONAGLE -- ADRIAN WAS WORKING.

HE WAS DOING EVERYTHING HE SHOULD'VE HE STILL LOST COVERAGE.

HE LOST HIS HEALTH.

HE LOST HIS JOB, AND HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO RECOVER OR HAVE ANY HOPE AT A MORE ECONOMICALLY PROSPEROUS LIFE BECAUSE OF THAT COVERAGE LOSS.

>> WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS KIND OF BLANKET BROUGHT BRUSH TO KIND OF PAIN TO THESE PEOPLE OUT TO BE MOOCHERS THAT ARE SEEPING OFF THE SYSTEM?

>> IT IS REALLY SAD TO ME BECAUSE I'VE WORKED WITH LOW INCOME PEOPLE MY WHOLE LIFE.

PEOPLE DO THE BEST THEY CAN WITH WHAT THEY'VE GOT.

THESE MYTHS AND STEREOTYPES THAT DEMONIZE POOR PEOPLE DON'T ACCOUNT FOR THE REALITY THAT ALMOST EVERYBODY IS WORKING, TAKING CARE OF FAMILY MEMBERS, GOING TO SCHOOL, HAS A DISABILITY, AND IS REALLY DOING THE BEST THEY CAN WITH WHAT THEY'VE GOT TO EKE OUT A MEAGER EXISTENCE.

I CAN TELL YOU, THE SOCIAL SAFETY NET IN THE UNITED STATES IS MEAGER.

PEOPLE DON'T GET CASH BENEFITS.

PEOPLE MIGHT GET A LITTLE BIT YOU TRY FEEDING A FAMILY ON SIX OR SEVEN DOLLARS PER DAY.

PEOPLE GET MEDICAID COVERAGE BUT IT IS ONLY USEFUL TO GET MEDICAL TREATMENT YOU NEED THAT ALLOWS YOU TO CONTINUE WORKING.

SO, IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT COPPER --PRECARIOUS EXISTENCE TO BE A LOW-INCOME PERSON IN AMERICA.

>> TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE COST BENEFITS HERE.

IS THE BENEFIT OF KICKING THESE PEOPLE OFF MEDICAID -- IS IT WORTH THE COST OF INFRASTRUCTURE TO DO THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

>> IN ARKANSAS THE TOTAL WAS 24, 26 MILLION SPENT.

IN GEORGIA, I WAS HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS.

ESTIMATES FOR HOW IT WAS GOING TO BE DEPLOYED IN KENTUCKY, I WAS IN THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS.

SO YES.

IT'S GOING TO COST HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR STATES TO PAY THE PRIVATE CONTRACTORS.

THAT, TO ME, IS AN EPIC FAILURE OF MORALITY AND AN ABJECT FAILURE OF MORALITY.

TO YOUR POINT ABOUT COST- BENEFIT TO THIS.

YOU ARE MAKING PEOPLE POORER, LESS EMPLOYABLE.

YOU ARE MAKING IT SO EMPLOYERS IN YOUR STATE HAVE A LESS RELIABLE, LESS HEALTHY WORKFORCE.

YOU ARE MAKING IT SO THE HOSPITALS IN YOUR STATE ARE MORE LIKELY TO CLOSE, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE IN RURAL AREAS AND ABSORB MORE UNCOMPENSATED CARE.

TEXTING YOUR OWN STATE WORKERS WHO ARE OFTENTIMES DEVOTED PUBLIC SERVICE WORKING IN HEART CONDITIONS.

THERE ISN'T ANY MATERIAL BENEFIT TO THESE PROGRAMS OTHER THAN CUTTING PEOPLE OFF.

IN THIS CASE, TO SAVE MONEY TO JUSTIFY TAX CUTS FOR THE RICHEST AMERICANS AND BUDDIES OF, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE PROPOSING THE LAWS.

>> I KNOW THAT YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES FILED SUIT AGAINST ARKANSAS AND WERE ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY STOP IT THERE.

I GUESS, WHAT IS THE LESSON LEARNED FROM THAT FOR, ONE, YOUR CLIENTS, BUT ALSO, IS THIS POSSIBLE, THEN, AND 49 OTHER STATES, TO DO THE SAME THING?

THIS IS A DIFFERENT PROCESS THAN WHAT WAS INSTITUTED IN ARKANSAS VERSUS WHAT IS COMING THROUGH RECONCILIATION.

RIGHT?

>> WITH THE RECONCILIATION BILL, IT WILL MANDATE THAT OTHER STATES OFFER PROVISIONS LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN ARKANSAS.

WHAT YOU GOT IS A RECIPE FOR GAS.

THIS UNITED STATES USING 50 DIFFERENT SYSTEMS AND 50 DIFFERENT SETS OF RULES BECAUSE THE WAY THE BILL IS WRITTEN, THERE ARE A FEW THINGS MANDATED FEDERALLY, BUT STATES, LIKE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL ENTER BUT THOSE THINGS AND STATES WILL HAVE SOME DISCRETION WITHIN THAT.

YEAH $.50 --SETS OF RULES.

AND IT IS GOING TO BE MASS CHAOS AND WHAT ARKANSAS DID IS A RUN-OF-THE-MILL VERSION OF WHAT MOST RED STATES WILL DO OR THE BEST OF WHAT MOST RED STATES CAN BE EXPECTED TO DO.

YOU ARE GOING TO GET THESE MASS 18,164 PEOPLE LOST COVERAGE IN ONLY FIVE MONTHS.

RIGHT?

ARKANSAS IS A STATE OF 3 MILLION.

AND SO, MAYBE THERE IS SOME CONTEXT THERE.

WHEN YOU EXPAND THIS TO STATES LIKE TEXAS, FLORIDA, OR BIGGER STATES.

KENTUCKY, CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK, INSIST THAT WOMEN MINIMIZE COVERAGE LOSSES, THERE IS NO WAY DOES THERE IS NO WAY TO PREVENT ELIGIBLE PEOPLE FROM LOSING COVERAGE.

JUST LIKE ADRIAN AND JUST LIKE MANY OF OUR OTHER FINES.

WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE HIS COVERAGE LOSSES ON MASSIVE SCALES.

MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE DOSED THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE ESTIMATED AS CLOSE TO SEVEN OR 8 MILLION AS A RESULT OF THESE POLICIES.

OTHER ESTIMATES THAT TAKE ARKANSAS AS THE BASELINE, SUGGEST MANY, MANY MORE.

THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE.

ARKANSAS IS A FAIR EXAMPLE OF WHAT'S TO COME.

IT IS AN OMEN, AND ANY STATE THAT IS IMPLEMENTING THESE REQUIREMENTS IS GOING TO HAVE TO STRUGGLE THROUGH AND END UP CUTTING PEOPLE OFF COVERAGE THAT SHOULD STILL HAVE IT.

>> SO WHAT IS THE TIMELINE FOR THIS?

I MEAN, HOW FAST ARE WE LIKELY TO SEE PEOPLE LOSE MEDICAID COVERAGE?

>> THE COVERAGE LOSSES WON'T HIT UNTIL AFTER THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS AND I THINK THAT WAS INTENTIONAL BY THE DRAFTERS OF THE BILL BUT WHAT YOU WILL START SEEING IMMEDIATELY IS STATES HAVING TO MAKE CHANGES TO THEIR COUNTRIES WITH DIFFERENT KINDS OF CONTRACTORS AND TO THEIR TECHNOLOGY SYSTEMS SO THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDED FOR THESE KIND OF PENALTIES WILL BE IN PLACE BY THE TIME THEY GO LIVE A YEAR AND A HALF FROM NOW, SO THAT'S SOME OF THE IMMEDIATE CHANGES WE ARE GOING TO BE SEEING, AND STATES, I IMAGINE, ARE GOING TO SPEND, YOU KNOW, TENS OF MILLIONS, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT ARE GOING TO GO TO PRIVATE CONTRACTORS TO BUILD SYSTEMS THAT ARE GOING TO BREAK AND END UP CUTTING PEOPLE OFF THE COVERAGE IN A RELATIVELY SHORT TO BE A TIME.

>> SOMEONE WATCHING THIS -- THEY'RE GOING TO QUOTE THE WHITE HOUSE WEBSITE.

AS THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID NUMEROUS TIMES, THERE WILL BE NO CUTS TO MEDICAID.

IT REMOVES ILLEGAL ALIENS AND ENFORCES REQUIREMENTS AND PROTECTS MEDICAID FOR THE TRULY VULNERABLE.

ARE THESE CUTS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THESE ARE CUTS.

THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU GET THE KIND OF SAVINGS REQUIRED BY THE RECONCILIATION PROCESS IS IF YOU CUT PEOPLE FROM MEDICAID, AND ALL ESTIMATES ARE THAT THE RECONCILIATION BILL IS GOING TO CUT UP TO 17 MILLION PEOPLE OUT OF HEALTH INSURANCE THROUGH MEDICAID AND THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT SUBSIDY PROGRAM.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE BE UNINSURED.

MORE AND MORE PEOPLE GETTING TREATMENT FROM EMERGENCY ROOMS, WHICH IS MORE COSTLY.

MEDICAL DEBT, AND ALL THE ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES TO SOCIETY, WHETHER IT IS HOSPITALS OR SOCIAL SERVICES OR STATE WORKERS OR MEDICAID PROVIDERS OR OTHER PEOPLE THAT JUST AREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO SURVIVE IN THIS KIND OF NEW PARADIGM.

SO THESE ARE CUTS AND THEY ARE CUTS ALL AROUND.

>> I WANT ASK ABOUT ANOTHER HAT THAT YOU WEAR AS FOUNDER OF TECTONIC JUSTICE.

IT IS A NEW UNDERTAKING TO TRY TO FIGHT THE IMPACTS OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE ON LOW- INCOME COMMUNITIES.

AND JUST FOR THE AUDIENCE, WHAT HAD HE FOUND SO FAR IN HOW A.I.

IS PART OF THE DECISION-MAKING THAT COULD IMPACT WHETHER OR NOT SOMEBODY QUALIFIES FOR, WHETHER IT IS MEDICAID OR SNAP BENEFITS OR SOCIAL SECURITY.

>> FIRST OF ALL, A.I.

IS COMING FOR ALL OF US.

IT IS BEING USED BY GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, LANDLORDS, EMPLOYERS.

OTHER PEOPLE WITH POWER, TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THE COURT LIFE AREAS.

OF ALL OF US, BUT PARTICULARLY --PEOPLE.

WE WORK.

HOW MUCH RENT WE PAY.

WHAT BENEFITS WE GET.

THE NATURE OF WHETHER MEDICAL TREATMENTS ARE APPROVED OR NOT.

ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE BEING DECIDED RIGHT NOW BY POWERFUL PEOPLE USING A.I.

AND ALL 92 MILLION LOW-INCOME PEOPLE AND HE WAS.

THAT IS PEOPLE WITHIN EYESHOT OF THE POVERTY LINE.

HAS SOME ASPECT OF THEIR LIFE DECIDED BY A.I.

ALMOST ALWAYS, THIS IS IT BEING HARMFUL.

PEOPLE LOSE ACCESS TO BENEFITS.

THEIR HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES BECOME RESTRICTED.

RENTS GO UP.

JOB OPPORTUNITIES GO DOWN, AND WHEN YOU ARE HURT BY ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, BASED DECISION- MAKING, YOU REALLY HAVE NOWHERE TO TURN TO HELP YOU ASSERT YOUR RIGHTS, AND SO, TECTONIC JUSTICE --TECHTONIC JUSTICE IS AN EFFORT FROM EXPENSES I HAD AS A LEGAL ATTORNEY IN ARKANSAS TO RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS A REAL THREAT TO ALL OF US BUT PARTICULARLY TO LOW-INCOME PEOPLE SO THAT WE START DEVISING STRATEGIES AND INVESTING RESOURCES INTO FIGHTING BACK AGAINST THESE FORMS OF INJUSTICE THAT ARE REALLY TRICKY, THAT YOU DON'T KNOW THAT A.I.

IS BEING USED.

IF YOU DO KNOW A.I.

IS BEING USED GOT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT WORKS OR WHY IT WORKS THAT WAY OR HOW TO FIGHT BACK, AND SO, TECHTONIC JUSTICE IS MEANT TO HELP US FIGHT AGAINST THIS IMPENDING THREAT TO, YOU KNOW, JUSTICE EVERYWHERE.

>> KEVIN DE LIBAN, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, HARI.

>> AND FINALLY, A UNIQUE STRESS THERAPY THAT IS ALL THE RAGE.

>> THREE, TWO, ONE.

SCREAM CLUB CHICAGO IS BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER EACH WEEK TO LET IT ALL OUT INTO LAKE MICHIGAN.

BEFORE YELLING AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS, PARTICIPANTS JOIN DOWN WHAT THEY WANT TO RELEASE ON BIODEGRADABLE PAPER AND THEN THROW IT INTO THE PEACEFUL WAVES.

A RITUAL, STRANGERS WALKING TO THE SUNSET, FEELING A LITTLE BIT LIGHTER.

COMMITTED.

YOU WANT TO JOIN THEM.

IT SOUNDS A LITTLE BIT CATHARTIC.

>>> TUNE INTO TOMORROW'S SHOW WHERE WE COVER A LANDMARK CLIMATE CASE BROUGHT TO COURT BY THEN I WANT TO.

THE QUESTION IS, SHOULD NATIONS BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR POLLUTION AND THE IMPACT ON THE NATURAL WORLD?

ON THAT TOMORROW WITH THE AND CLIMATE MINISTER.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP ON THE SHOW, SENT THEM FOR THE NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON AMANPOUR AND COMPANY ON PBS.

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.