GEOFF BENNETT: Well, President Trump is shaking up his White House leadership, Republicans are confronting deep divisions within their party, and Democrats are preparing to take control of Congress.

For more on what comes next, we turn to Brooks and Capehart.

That's David Brooks of "The Atlantic" and Jonathan Capehart of MS NOW.

What a week, gentlemen.

(LAUGHTER) GEOFF BENNETT: And we end it with President Trump announcing that Stephen Miller will replace Susie Wiles as White House chief of staff.

After one of the most devastating midterm defeats in modern history, the president is elevating one of the architects of his most hard-line policy.

David, your reaction.

How's it all strike you?

DAVID BROOKS: Stunning.

Stunning.

He's going for the wartime consigliere, which is what Stephen Miller is.

I guess they're going to the mattresses, as they would say.

I spent a week in Sicily, so I got a lot of "Godfather" references.

(LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: I just think he's going with the guy who's the ultimate loyalist.

And he's I think sending Susie Wiles over to help pick the nominee for the next Republican, on the illusion that he has going to have much of a say in who's the next nominee.

I have really been struck by how so many Republicans are unleashed, not all in public.

The one who's been most public is Ron DeSantis, the Florida governor.

After the election, he was unleashed, and he was just furious about what's happened to the party, how it's been destroyed.

He called this election a near-extinction event for the Republican Party.

And a lot of Republicans feel that.

A lot of other Republicans, I would say, are just quiet.

They have gone sullen.

And so how that shakes out, but I don't think there's going to be much flavor for more of the same, which is what Stephen Miller is, doubling down on the same.

GEOFF BENNETT: Our Liz Landers reports that Susie Wiles submitted her resignation last night.

And there's other reporting that President Trump was angry with Wiles after the GOP's shellacking in this week's midterm election.

Is Stephen Miller's elevation, Jonathan, the clearest signal yet that President Trump has no intention of changing course?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Yes.

I mean, I think, pardon the imagery I'm about to present, Stephen Miller's elevation is a big middle finger to the American voters, what they had to say through their votes on Tuesday, to the incoming Democratic majorities.

How are they going to -- it just seems to me this is the clearest indication that the president has even -- has given up even pretending that he wants to govern.

My hope is that -- to pick up on what David was saying about Republicans, is that the behavior of the Republicans who come back to Washington in the 120th Congress, that their behavior will change.

And I'm particularly looking at Republican senators.

Lisa Murkowski is going to need some other moderates to join her in working with Democrats to get things done.

I mean, Democrats have a lot on their plate, given the results of the election.

But so do -- but so do Republicans.

And I would hope that there are some moderates within the Republican Party, because I do know that there are some, will start to assert themselves, especially if they're thinking of running for president themselves in '28.

GEOFF BENNETT: In order for that to happen, Republicans would have to believe that MAGA is no longer a potent political force.

Tucker Carlson said last night on his show that the Trump era is over.

Is he right?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, absolutely.

For this election, people don't -- in 2010, when Barack Obama suffered that shellacking, he -- the Republicans had an advantage of 7 percentage points up in the total House race.

This time, the Democrats had a total House race advantage of 13 points.

So it was twice as big as 2010, which we considered this massive midterm setback for the president.

This was twice as big.

I still am stunned by the margins.

On election night, we weren't quite clear on how big these margins is, Jon Ossoff 18 points, Talarico 12 points, El-Sayed, who was kind of one of the weaker candidates, seven points, just huge margins.

And so the Republican -- he's suffered setbacks before, but never when he's two years away from ending his term.

And so I think this was such a comprehensive, existential setback, and he's got so little left in his term in office, I think people are -- this is the end of MAGA.

He will still do stuff.

But, as a movement, as a force, there's the end.

GEOFF BENNETT: Let's talk about Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and his future, because Republican Congressman Thomas Massie, he's forcing a confrontation and will introduce this measure to launch what would be an impeachment vote potentially as early as next week -- excuse me -- given the controversy surrounding Hegseth's leadership and the deeply unpopular war with Iran.

How do you see this playing out, Jonathan?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, remember, Congress -- well, the House of Representatives went on recess early because Speaker Johnson didn't want Thomas Massie's, I think it was a discharge petition to actually have to be enforced.

So they went on, what, it was like five or six weeks to ostensibly go and campaign.

Now that they're coming back, they're going to have to face it, and putting folks on the record in the lame-duck.

If they don't do something now, then you better believe, in the 120th Congress, they are going to do something.

Also, the war with Iran, we still don't know, what's the -- what's the plan?

What's the strategy?

what's the end goal?

We have no idea what is happening to our service members who are in the region, who are on those aircraft carriers in the region.

There's no accountability.

At a minimum, at a minimum, Secretary Hegseth needs to be brought on -- brought to the Capitol to explain himself, not just to Congress, but to the American people.

GEOFF BENNETT: How do you see it?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I hope the Democratic leadership goes to Donald Trump and say, you mentioned you want to do a deal.

Let's start with this deal.

Hegseth and Miller go.

You name your price.

And no progress is going to be made in this -- in any sort of dealmaking as long as Miller's in there, and no competent running of that war is going to be as long as Hegseth there.

And so, if they can tell Donald Trump, tell us what you want in exchange for these two guys, and we will do that, I think that would be good for the country, good for the Pentagon, and good for the prospects of some sort of deal, which is impossible if Miller and Hegseth are in there.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: That's a deal that -- I mean, that's a great idea, but you know what in instantly came to mind, because we're talking about President Trump?

He will say, give me the arch.

He will say, give me some kind of vanity project in order to... DAVID BROOKS: It's worth it.

You can tear down the arch.

Totally worth.

Totally worth it.

(LAUGHTER) GEOFF BENNETT: Well, let's talk about the Democratic leadership, because you have Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries.

They're poised to lead a Democratic Congress after this historic victory.

Schumer himself said this past week in a press conference that Americans voted for change.

But there are Democrats who believe that that change should extend to their own party's leadership.

Are Schumer and Jeffries the right people to lead Democrats into this new political era?

I realize I'm asking you about Democratic family business, but, still, weigh in.

(LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: Jeffries certainly is.

Schumer, I think, still is.

I think Democrats got to realize this is a temporary thing so far.

This is a rental, not an ownership, this majority.

As Amy Walter pointed out on election night, people have thrown the party out of power in 10 of the last 11 elections.

They're ready to move on if they have to.

And so having people who know what they're doing -- I sort of believe in experience.

Schumer sort of knows what he's doing.

Jeffries knows what he's doing.

And they have some -- just some big challenges.

Remember, the Democrats have to understand that Donald Trump existed for a reason.

A lot of people feel left behind by elites in this country.

And they have got to do something to address that.

And they can do it with health care, they can do it with tax policy, they can do it with a generous welfare state, but they have got to resolve the inequality crisis in this country, and they have got to resolve the stagnation crisis in this country.

Get some growth.

Get some revenue.

And those are just big tasks.

And Washington and especially Congress works through experience of people who know how to goes.

And I'm not sure they can find better than those two.

GEOFF BENNETT: Does this political era demand a new generation of leadership?

And as I ask the question, we should say that no one has emerged to run against Schumer or Jeffries.

So this is a theoretical conversation.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Correct.

I remember in 2018, when the Democrats took back the majority, and everyone was saying, Nancy Pelosi is not the person to lead the House of Representatives.

We need new leadership.

And I remember writing a column at the time that said, do you not understand the moment that you're in?

You need her there, because you will go toe-to-toe with the president.

You need her experience.

I think Democrats can say whatever they want to say.

Unless and until someone comes forward, the leaders will be Hakeem Jeffries and especially Chuck Schumer, who twice brought Democratic majorities and retaking the Senate with impossible terrain.

He did it in 2006 as the DSCC chair back then, and he's done it again on terrain that no one, no one predicted, Kansas, Texas, Mississippi if things keep going the way they're going.

So I agree with David on this.

Democrats are going to need experience.

Democrats thankfully are on record saying they understand that, even though they're in the majority, this doesn't mean that the American people love them and that they have to prove to the American people, have to earn the trust that they have been given.

And that's -- that is going to be a big task.

But it will be made that much more difficult if you just hand the keys to leadership to someone untested.

GEOFF BENNETT: This idea that it's not a realignment, it's a rental, that's a phrase I have heard this past week.

What's it going to take for Republicans to be electorally competitive again?

DAVID BROOKS: Miracles.

(LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: They don't know what they stand for anymore.

Donald -- there was a Republican Party we all understood, free trade, that sort of thing, low taxes, small government.

Donald Trump blew up that Republican Party.

He's just blown up his own version of the Republican Party.

And so it's still going to be a working-class party.

Every center-right party in the Western world has become a working-class party, and their goal is to become a work a multiracial working-class party.

But after the election they have just run, that's going to be a lot of work.

I do think, the governors, they have got some talent, DeSantis, not my cup of tea, but he's a talented politician.

Governor Kemp from Georgia would be a very formidable presidential candidate.

So they have got some talent, but they just -- they're starting from ground zero right now.

GEOFF BENNETT: David Brooks, Jonathan Capehart, thank you both.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks, Geoff.

DAVID BROOKS: Thank you.