AMNA NAWAZ: The United Nations climate summit# in Brazil, known as COP 30, will wrap up## later this week, and its achievements# will likely be more muted this year.

Tens of thousands of delegates from nearly# 200 countries are meeting near the Amazon## rain forest, but among those not there, any# official delegation from the United States,## the country that's emitted more carbon# dioxide than any nation on Earth.

William Brangham has more for our# ongoing climate coverage, Tipping Point.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The Trump administration's# decision to give COP 30 the cold shoulder follows## other similar dismissals of any efforts# to combat climate change.

The president,## again, pulled the U.S.

out of the# landmark 2015 Paris agreement,## which sought to keep global temperatures# from rising to increasingly dangerous levels.

So to help us understand where things sit# today, we turn to someone with decades## of high-level experience in this realm.# John Kerry was secretary of state under## President Obama and was President Biden's# special presidential envoy for climate.

John Kerry, thank you so much for being here.

You used to lead large delegations# to these COP meetings.

This year,## the U.S.

administration sent no one.

President# Trump says, as you know, that climate change is## the greatest con job in history.

What does it# mean when the American government is absent?

JOHN KERRY, Former U.S.

Secretary of State:# Well, I think it means, first of all,## that the United States is hurting itself, that# the absence of U.S.

leadership and even presence,## just put it at presence, really# defeats the fundamental purpose## of these meetings to some degree, because no# one country can solve this problem by itself.

No country has enough money to# solve this problem by itself.## That's why it's so critical, and we# did in Dubai, in Glasgow, in Paris,## we brought private sectors at the table# to be part of the solution.

We can only## solve this if we galvanize our economies on# a global basis to be curbing carbon dioxide,## to be curbing greenhouse gas pollution, and to be# building out the new energy systems of the future.

What's interesting is, other countries are making# me -- what is it about this issue that one person## in one country in one government says it's a hoax,# and thousands of scientists around the world,## presidents of countries, monarchs,# finance ministers, defense ministers,## environment ministers are all agreeing we must# move urgently and rapidly to cope with this issue?

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: One of your key# victories was the Paris agreement,## which set this goal of keeping additional# warming below two degrees Celsius.

It looks like we are going to blow# through that target.

By most measures,## other countries have failed to meet their# promises made at previous COPs to cut## their emissions.

So does it really matter,# though, if America is not in this arena,## given that we are still so struggling# to get our hands around this problem?

JOHN KERRY: Yes, it does matter.

And let me share with you why.

When President# Obama star.. secretary of state, one of his priorities was# trying to deal with the climate crisis.

Well,## guess what?

You just said it a moment ago.# Countries aren't doing what they promised to do.

And when the United States pulls back, as we have,## it really releases other countries from# the pressure of doing the things that## they promised they would do.

So emissions are# going up, not down.

And what we have done is,## we have seen an unconscious and in some cases# purposeful turning away from the promises made.

For what reason?

Greed, for money, because# there's a reality that the existing system## has revenue streams to oil and gas companies, to# other folks who are arguing against doing things,## and that really just stops things in their track.# So what we need to do is renew our commitments.

Belem is an opportunity to raise the# national efforts, which we did almost## in every year from Paris.

If we go backwards# now, it is going to cost every nation in the## world far more than it would cost to be# moving forward and keeping the promises.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Help me understand# a disconnect that I'm seeing here.## There is remarkable progress being# made on solar and wind.

One recent## report indicated that China's emissions,# the biggest current polluter in the world,## might be tapering off or even reducing# largely because of solar and wind.

Given the evidence of how powerful these# technologies are, that they are cheap and## clean, why is it that we are still seeing# a seeming reluctance to embrace them fully?

JOHN KERRY: Because there's a distinct# group that want to continue the status quo.

I mentioned a moment ago the revenue stream.# They're making money.

And now, with energy## demand up, they think they're going to be there to# be the major provider of that new energy.

I don't## think that's the way the world sees it, frankly,# the economies of the world.

The fact is that,## last year, $2.2 trillion went into the venture# capital and the investments of the new energy## economy of solar, wind, and other renewables,# versus one trillion that went into fossil fuel.

That's the first time in human# history there's been that turnaround,## that imbalance.

And I think# that what you see now is many,## many new technologies poised to come online.# Solar is obviously gaining every single year.## Solar is absolutely and wind absolutely# cheaper than fossil fuel production.

So we're really witnessing -- this is a# major moment for the world.

The fact is,## we made promises that could keep the Earth's# temperature increase near the 1.5 degrees, 1.6,## 1.7.

The International Energy Agency says,# if we followed through on the promises that## were made in Glasgow and in Sharm el-Sheikh and# Dubai, if we did the things we promised to do,## we can win the battle, we can hold# the Earth's temperature increase.

We're just not choosing to do that.

Just look at# what's happening in the economy.

Two days ago,## Bloomberg carried a headline saying, you know# who believes in climate change?

The stock market.## And if you look at the stock market,# you will see incredible profits## being made by the deployment of the new# technologies that are not oil and gas.

So if you look across the board at where# we're heading, I think those technologies## are going to win.

I think they win because# new technologies beat old commodities.

And## that is exactly what the marketplace# is beginning to see and experience.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Bill Gates,# who you know has long been a## champion of action on climate change,# recently made a little bit of a pivot,## arguing that we could innovate our# way out of the climate crisis and## that we should focus more on human health and# protecting children and deal with diseases.

He also argued seemingly that some of the rhetoric# around climate change, the what he argued was too## apocalyptic language, had harmed the movement# overall.

And I wonder what you think about that.

JOHN KERRY: Well, I understand exactly what# he's saying, and I don't disagree with the## fact that the terminology that has been# used for years has run its course, I think.

To some degree, the efforts to coalesce# action to deal with the climate crisis## has been tarnished by branding that has# purposefully taken place to sort of make## it seem like all people care about is# ESG or it's just a matter of wokism.

And that's because not enough argument# has been made, which I was just making,## about the benefits to the# economy and the strategic## directions that people are taking# on the planet.

Let me be specific.

China.

President Trump and others say, well,# we want it to be -- with China, we want to win## that competition.

We're going to be number one.# Terrific.

But you can't do that by just turning## your back and walking away from the battlefield.# And the battlefield is in the production of## those innovations and technologies that Bill# referred to that are going to win the battle.

Today, China is the largest deployer and# manufacturer of renewables in the world.## China has deployed more renewable energy than# all of the rest of the world put together.## They know this is the new market.

And China# is killing it in that market right now because## they don't have the competition, after all# these years of the predictions of the bad## things that didn't happen that are in fact# happening now, storms, more intense floods,## fires, you name it, all predicted, and# directly relatable to the climate impact.

But we could be addressing all of those things# if we were moving faster to create the jobs and## pursue the technologies that will provide clean# energy.

And if we do that, we're going to win.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, that is# former Secretary of State and former## Special Presidential Envoy for Climate John Kerry.

Thank you so much for being here.

JOHN KERRY: Thank you, sir.