Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.

Thank you so much for joining us for this edition of Donnybrook.

Good to have you with us.

thanks for inviting us into your living rooms or wherever you watch or listen to this program.

We do have, as always, lots to talk about.

So, let's introduce the panelists and then move on with the uh heart of the program.

Let's kick things off with the media veteran herself, Wendy Wiese, and Bill McClellan, columnist and founder of Donnybrook.

He's of course with uh the Post Dispatch, as is Joe Holleman, stltoday.com as well, and with the St. Louis American, we welcome Alvin Reed.

But we open up the program on a sad note on this Thursday because we lost a legend in St. Louis politics, Bill Clay Senior, who for 32 years uh was in Congress representing St. Louis on Capitol Hill, died this week.

He did appear on Nine PBS numerous times, including this interview in 2004 with Don Johnson.

And you've heard that criticism more than than you ought to be a little more universal.

You ought to be a little less uh involved with your own because it's everybody's congressman.

I I think it's a mindset that goes back even to slavery that uh certain people in this country decided that certain place for us as a people.

I was on a radio show yesterday called in and some some white lady called in and said we're all Americans.

We're part of America.

And I had to explain to her that when we started the civil rights movement, we were Americans, but uh we weren't part of America.

We weren't sharing and benefiting from the great resources of this country.

And that uh that was the basis of of our uh protest.

And any anybody that's representing people must represent its base first.

And if I'm representing a district that's that's 40% black or 50% black, that's my base.

and I've got to represent the interests of those people.

If I don't, then I'm I'm not worthy of of being in public office.

I'd like to see the whole interview.

Joe Hollow and you and Michael Sorcin wrote a touching, thorough obituary of Congressman Clay in today's stltoday.com.

He had his fingerprints on 300 pieces of legislation over 32 years.

That's actually quite an incredible legacy, isn't it?

I I think that's easily arguable that he has been the most influential St. Louis politician of the 20th century.

I really do.

Not not only because of what he did in the legislature, but his status of being the first black congressman from the state of Missouri.

I think getting elected back in the 60s showed to other blacks that there was a at least a a path forward to becoming a representative, to having a career in politics.

So, I don't think you can underestimate the influence he had both on his own community, the state of Missouri, and then by legislation he passed.

A lot of it, not only to to help blacks and civil rights, but also a lot of union laws.

He was a staunch union supporter.

Um, I I just don't think you can underestimate uh his value that that he had during his time in office.

And I think aspiration, as you mentioned, I think I not only in politics, but just I was 8 years old when he was elected.

Now, I had no interest in politics still don't really other than talking about it, but just the idea that you could be a congressperson or you could do this or you could be anything you wanted to, you know, if you basically if you went for it and that was very very important.

And I think as we look back, I do remember the night he was elected and you know, our family was excited.

This was also the night that Richard Nixon was elected.

And it's it's interesting that now here we are in uh 2025 that I think most Republicans would like uh the Democrats to be more like Bill Clay and I think most Democrats would like uh Republicans to be more like Richard Nixon.

So, I mean, it's funny how they, you know, another irony today is that as we're marking this great man's passing is that either the the Congressional Black Caucus or the the various civil rights organizations announced uh that they are bringing they're bringing all sorts of actions against the Trump administration for the for the DEI um for the for the DEI situation.

But it was just it was it was quite amazing to hear him and to see him you know, that long ago and uh and even as you said in 1968 and I I also want to throw in that Bill Clay was a education person.

He was one that said like no school is important, graduating is important, going to college is important.

He was not one of those who shied away from there's a responsibility within the family to create success for kids.

Now granted he did it for you know his own but I mean that's the kind of man he was.

He people could say about you know back in Johnson was president and all that and it was like but no this was not a handouts guy.

This was a guy that no I think we deserve this but you got to work for it.

Well we're not going to have another fellow like u Mr. Clay who was so in charge of things.

I mean he had people in the state senate like John Bass was his guy.

He had people in the house that were his people in alderman that were his aldermen.

I mean he was truly an oldfashioned boss.

He was kingmaker.

And if anybody enjoys family and medical leave in the United States, they can thank uh Bill Clay Senior for that legislation which was first uh vetoed by um George Herbert Walker Bush and then Bill Clinton signed it later.

So uh but people might find this a little surprising.

He and I had a little work experience together.

Uh, in 1997, I was walking around the old courthouse in downtown St. Louis, across from KMX, and I noticed there's no plaque for Dread Scott.

So, I wrote Congressman Clay a letter.

I said, "You want to work together to put up a plaque?"

And, um, he did.

And we called the Department of Interior, which runs the park service, and they didn't want to do it because it violated some sort of precept.

So, he introduced legislation uh instructing the Department of Interior to appropriate the funds to put up a plaque in downtown St. Louis.

and before it got anywhere, the park service says, "Okay, we'll put up that plaque."

Um, and on another occasion, I interviewed him at the Fontban at Fontban University and uh I was interviewing uh in front of an audience and uh he had written a book and in the audience was my father-in-law who was actually appointed US attorney by uh Richard Nixon.

So, Bill Clay and Don Store were not exactly close friends, but when they met that evening, they hugged and they slapped each other in the back and they laughed and they told stories.

And I thought, how often do Democrats and Republicans do that today?

I don't know.

Well, Tip O'Neal, Reagan, I mean, it used to happen a lot more than it happens today and certainly in the future.

Yeah.

So anyway, our um thoughts and prayers, condolences to Lacy and Michelle and uh the rest of the Clay family over this uh loss.

And uh I'll tell you what, uh you can uh rewind uh I think uh Donnie Brookke uh go on the app and look at that clip once again.

Maybe even more.

Maybe we should post the entire interview somewhere on the YouTube channel.

Hey uh let's move on.

Wendy, the 7th Day Adventists had one of the largest conventions in St. Louis in recent years, 50,000 people there, but then when they left on Sunday, the the airport for some reason was not ready for the onslaught of visitors who were leaving St. Louis.

It turned out to be the largest volume of traffic at Lambert since September 11th, 2001.

26,000 people going through Lambert, more than the day before Thanksgiving.

Uh, so it turns out these 7th Day Adventists were in the sweltering heat, waiting 3 to 5 hours, missing their planes, and not getting through TSA.

And uh, it was really messed up.

Do you think that St. Louis should reconsider these large conventions?

No, I am not yet willing to play down to to our ability.

Uh, I I I definitely don't think that we have to adopt that kind of defeist attitude.

Although I understand I understand what you're saying.

It it made People magazine and the Daily Mail it it it absolutely did.

It was international news.

But I bet I'd bet you a dollar to a donut if you ask everybody on our crew, everybody in the control room, everybody around this table whether or not you've had bad experiences traveling at airports.

It's just it's you know emotionally I think we're kind of programmed to know that what used to be like a three-hour day traveling could easily you know get up to 8 n hours anymore after 911 everything has changed our sensibility about traveling.

Um this this expansion that is going to apparently at least it was budgeted in 2024 out at Lambert.

Uh they will be looking at the security areas.

they will be looking at the the you know the desk and that kind of thing.

Um and the you know the baggage carousels Southwest employees were concerned that maybe the baggage carousels would collapse under that kind of volume you know so um we we just have to we we just have to focus on the problem and I I have I have great faith in Rah Rhonda Ham Neber Nebergi and it's taken me 40 years to learn how to pronounce her name so um s but I do have faith in her And I I just don't want to say, "Oh, no.

Let's let's not go for that because I think we can correct it."

Well, well, Wendy, it seems like we ought to affix blame here.

I mean, that's always the most fun to do.

But we have conventions all the time, large conventions, and everybody leaves at the same time on Sunday afternoon.

We have sporting events.

I mean, something occurred that untored to make this long line stretching out.

I mean, somebody's got to be at fault, don't you think?

No, I agree.

That was what I'm saying.

Like, something had to have happened because this is not like water like running downhill.

Okay.

This is these people came to St. Louis.

Now, I may have been over two or three days, but you had to know they're all going to be probably leaving at about the same time.

I don't see how no one was prepared for that.

I kind of just don't get it.

And so, something's missing here.

There is a missing link, so to and it was a large international convention.

So this is you know uh just by you know just anecdotally it's going to have an impact on future conventions maybe.

Um but I don't think we should throw in the towel.

No, I but I agree with the point is it seems to me that there seems to be two ends where the problem could have been.

Either the convention and visitors folks didn't give enough notice or let the airport know, hey, you're going to get slammed at 1:00 or whatever on Sunday or the airport wasn't ready for it.

And those two sides need to figure out who was wrong and don't do it again.

Because I do agree with Wendy, we shouldn't play down and say, "Well, this one got messed up, so let's not do any more big conventions.

Do better at the next one.

It would be the solution."

But I agree that there doesn't seem to be there's either a problem on one end or the other and somebody needs to figure out where that problem.

Why didn't Should we have hearings or something?

I mean, I I really think that something went terribly wrong, right?

You know, we have World Series and everybody's leaving at the same time, right?

They thought they were covered.

I mean, they they thought they were coming.

Why didn't someone from the airport walk up and down the long line that almost extended to the cell phone lot and say, "If you've got a flight leaving at 9:00 a.m., you got to come with me now.

You go to the front and then go, if you're leaving at 10:00 a.m. on top of everything, on top of everything, you be had a stampout.

Somebody been crushed."

TSA can look at your ticket and say, "No, you're not 9:00 a.m. Get out of here."

Well, everybody at waiting out in the heat and say, "Yeah, I got a 9:00."

back.

Well, you know, the problem is when they miss their flights, there's a charge to rebook now.

And not only do they miss the flight in St. Louis, they miss the flight in Dallas and Chicago and Charlotte.

I mean, well, I mean, well, I think that be the next thing.

Somebody Lambert might be paying some bills or something because I would I would challenge that, you know, especially if I missed another flight and I had to spend the night in some other city other than St. Louis.

Now I got a problem.

And hey, St. Louis, call Kansas City.

this World Cup thing.

How you gonna handle that?

I think they probably already have a plan like, hey, you know, we're gonna have like 200,000 people hit us at the same time.

I'm sure they got a plan already.

Well, we used to do it in the 1990s when TWWA had many passengers per day, but that was before TSA.

Bill McClellan, I want to ask you about one of the great sports broadcasters in St. Louis history.

I think so.

Anyway, John Kelly.

He was released from his duties with the St. Louis Blues doing a television playbyplay last week by Blues CEO Chris Zimmerman and FanDuel which is the organization that runs the telecast.

Now instead they're going to have a simal cast with Chris Kerber and Joe Vatitali.

They'll be calling both the radio and the television action in this uh strategic realignment as Mr. Zimmerman described it.

I don't know.

I I just think uh John Kelly is he he he hung the moon.

Uh great broadcaster.

I'm sorry to see him go.

Oh, me too.

And I you know I you know and of course his father was the original broadcaster.

They're a part of the team and I didn't know John Kelly but I liked him.

I admired him and whole part of the blues deal.

And it seemed to me like FanDuel was kind of taking over and it it upset me that Mr. Zimmerman said this is nothing to do with money.

When you know whenever they say that it means this is all about money, right?

you know, and and I just thought it was a really crummy look for the Blues and that maybe they were pushed by FanDuel to do it.

And listening to hockey and watching it are are two different things, you know?

I mean, the announcer when you're watching it doesn't have to give you every moment like the radio guy does.

I I thought this is a a bad look, a bad decision.

Well, he and his wife Jennifer have I mean, they're just they're they're just lovely people and they have been so good uh here in St. Louis and it's tantamount.

I mean, it's like it he is the Jack Buck or the Joe Buck of of hockey, you know, and and we take those dynasties very seriously here in St. Louis.

And I like Mr. Zimmerman very much.

Truly, I do.

But I think he deserved a more graceful, dignified exit.

Well, grace, dignity, fan.

That's good.

Gambling.

And and when I say money, this is a FanDuel thing.

Now, what I think how this works is you the FanDuel might hire the people, but the team has the, you know, right discretion on that.

So, this is a FanDuel save money thing.

And then like they're televising the games.

remember that the Blues and they were going through this change of who the broadcaster was going to be and we were lucky to end up with somebody even broadcasting the Cardinals in the Blues games because that was up in the air for a while.

So I think they basically I want to say strong armed the Blues but I think the Blues had to go with what FanDuel um you know wanted to do and I think that's just how kind of how it is.

sad.

And you're right, the fact that the the simulcast, that's the dead giveaway because if they said like, "Hey, we're going to hire Alvin Reed to do the uh you know, television broadcast."

Well, I would have probably made, you know, 10% of what Kelly made, but at least they'd be paying me something.

If you're just not going to pay anybody and and simoc cast, you're just saving dough.

Well, I I think he's going to land on his feet, you know.

Are you kidding me?

I was at Cam Wix in 1988 when uh Mark Bole was fired in September of 88.

And then uh a month later he got a job as the playbyplay announcer of the of the Indiana Pacers and he's been there ever since.

Wow.

So sometimes these things work out for the Carpenter at with the Washington Nationals.

I guess wasn't fired to get the job and then he retiring he's been with the Nationals for two decades.

I I think the point Bill made I don't when they talked about uh it didn't have anything to do with money.

Well then what did it have to do?

And that's what I think is really unfair because you're either getting rid of someone as a cost-saving measure or you're saying that they weren't very good.

Well, anybody who listens to John Kelly knows that's not true.

Well, ID is a good announcer.

So, come out and go look.

Tough times.

We had to save some money.

We're doing this.

But once again, nobody wants to be honest.

So, you're saying it's not about the money then what's it about?

I think Chris Zimmerman hinted that Kerber and Vitali are a little more lively, a little more entertaining.

They got that element and maybe they do because John Kelly was kind of straightforward.

Maybe they're going into that's part of watching.

Well, there's also a difference between calling it on radio and calling it on television.

And I think it's going to be a real challenge to have both sim.

Hey, uh Alvin, I guess Josh Hawley, senior senator from the state of Missouri was listening to you because it does.

Last week you complained uh that he voted for a bill that will cut the future increases in Medicaid.

Medicaid spending will actually go up, but the future increases as planned are going down.

So he this week, as reported by Joe Hollerman, he's going to reverse himself and he's going to now after he voted for those decreases in the future, he wants another $50 billion for rural hospitals that were not in the bill he voted for.

Uh well, I mean the thing is is that it passed by a single vote.

So that meant his vote was as important as any.

And then he stands out because he was, you know, wrote that no Medicaid cuts, but yet he then voted for the uh uh budget reconciliation bill.

So I mean, I just I don't know what to say about Josh in this.

Now, I'm going to just if you if if you had a problem with it, then you shouldn't have voted for it.

I guess you two curtailed to the power of the Trump administration.

And I'm just I'm just tired of it.

I just, you know, I'm just worn out with nobody wanting to stand up and really for what they believe in if they really believe in it.

So I'm I wasn't surprised that he voted for it.

I'm surprised that he pulled this one out of the Christmas stocking.

Uh I figured he would do exactly what he did, which was uh you have to at least if you said I promised to fight these things.

I think that and and I we addressed this a little bit last week.

I think what has happened here as we talk about it is is that that we we look at these bills 1,086 pages and think that somehow everybody who voted for that bill loved everything in that bill and everybody who voted against it hated everything in that bill when that's really not the case.

It pretty much came down along party lines.

If you talk to one camp, they'll say Josh Holly, the cuts in the provider fee, which funds rural hospitals, we kick that can down the road to 2030 in Missouri.

We got a fund established that'll help reimburse hospitals for these potential cuts that'll start in 30.

So, a lot of it depends on how you look at it.

The best you can do with a lot of these things is you record what a politician does and then we see where this bill goes.

And I have every intention on reporting on this is will it get passed?

He has said, "I promise to try to make sure that those uh cuts in the provider fee, which got pushed off to 2030, never take effect."

So, that's his word.

Hold him to his word.

He's just a he's a master politician.

I mean, he's a very smart guy.

He's not going to go against Donald Trump on anything.

And you know he and I think he introduced this bill not in the realistic hope that it'll get passed but so that he can say when the Medicaid cuts do come if the rural hospitals do close he can say I was on your side but but if Alvin's right I mean every vote his vote counted because the vice president then he held all the chips he could have said then I want a hundred billion dollars for rural hospitals or you're not getting my vote.

That's how the game should be played.

Or the bill gets has to be redone.

RA gets stripped out and there's no money for North County and radiation exposure.

It holds off on any tax breaks on tips for overtime taken out.

It could have been because the whole bill if it doesn't pass it goes up for redbate and now you put everything out on the table.

I just don't recall the Danforths and Eagletons of the world.

That's because they weren't dealing with the emperor that Josh Hawley is is dealing with.

And he is wearing some new clothes.

This particular emperor.

Do you think do you think Josh Hawley's um chances of winning an election what four years from now is when he'll run again?

If he had voted against that bill, do you think that Trump would have ran somebody against Josh Holly and Josh Holly would not have won his seat?

Yes.

I think Donald Trump controls that party so completely that if and and he's already slapped Holly around.

Remember when uh Holly endorsed Vicky Hassler for and and and Trump just went out of his way to say anybody but her, you know?

I mean, Holly doesn't have a lot of info.

He's not going to infer the wrath.

I I think Alvin actually makes a great point is is I think because Josh Hawley won again in 2024.

He doesn't run again till 2030, two years after Trump has left office.

He wants to be president 28.

But if you know, if you know this, if you're talking to him and you know this for a fact and you can prove that, call me next time, would you?

You know what that you know what that Brennon Charlie Brennan says.

All right.

Front page above the fold.

Maybe I should say he listens to me.

Remember?

Oh, that's right.

That's right.

Wendy Whis, I want to ask you about a summit that was uh convened today by former state senator Kurt Schaefer.

It was in Columbia, Missouri.

Uh Mikey O the governor spoke at it.

So it's got some gravitas and it was on the nuclear future, nuclear power future of Missouri.

Um people are saying, "Okay, apparently there's not going to be the money for the alternative fuels like solar and wind."

Uh and people are not high on fossil fuels now.

So how about nuclear power after Cold Water Creek and everything else?

Are we ready for nuclear power in the state of Missouri?

In 1979, I had a date with Paul Gilda House.

We went to the Esquire Theater and we saw The China Syndrome.

Wow.

And I was very young and he was very young.

And it was so funny because we had this idea, very spirited ideological discussion afterwards.

This is terrible.

This is terrible.

He said, "You would be the first one screaming if your haird dryer didn't work."

And I thought that was kind of astute for a young guy, you know, uh to be that cynical.

But no, I you just mentioned Cold Water Creek and the radiation and and that kind of stuff.

Um this is this is now what 40 years after and I know that nuclear energy is certainly something that people have become more comfortable with, but they don't live that close to Cold Water Creek and and uh the the the burning nuclear waste out of Westlake.

So I I do wish that we had alternatives.

You know, my my daughter did her first internship at the Callaway nuclear facility.

She thought it was really cool.

And I have never really been fearful of nuclear power for some reason.

So, I mean, I it doesn't bother me.

I think ultimately we'll have to look in that direction.

And um I too went on a date uh back in the day to see that movie.

And that's the only movie Jack Lemon ever got killed in if I think if I remember that correctly.

We could have been at the same show and it was the Esquire.

I'm not lying.

Now, Wendy's a little younger than I am.

So, I don't know.

I I I find it just so illogical to say you want to talk about getting away from fossil fuels and not even consider nuclear energy.

To me, it's the single easiest way to get away from it.

So, if people are really serious about getting away from fossil fuels, you at least have to have nuclear power on the table or you're really not playing with all the cards, especially since we're killing all the green energy stuff, letting China take over on that.

I mean, I I'm I'm agreeing with you guys.

I think nuclear power might be us.

I want to tell you something.

Uh, Bill's birthday is Tuesday the 22nd and No, it isn't.

It is.

What is it?

It's the 23rd.

It's the 23rd.

I want to tell you something.

Bill's birthday is the 23rd.

And uh if you follow us on X and on uh Facebook, you'll see a montage of Bill giving the peace sign uh in honor of his birthday.

Well, I'll enjoy that.

I will I will be spending my birthday at Wrigley Field watching watching the Cubs beat the Kansas City Royals.

Infidel, happy birthday.

This is Let's go to the old mailbag and see what people had to say about last week's program, shall we?

I'm skeptical of plans to relocate highways downtown.

The real issue is crime.

I know many liberal suburbanites who are afraid to go downtown.

That from Paul Driven of Webster Groves.

Kathy Moly of Overland wrote, "Kudos to Alvin Reed and Bill McClellan for setting the record straight on Josh Holly's betrayal of Missourians on the big beautiful bill Medicaid cuts.

I would suggest that Joe Holleman read Hawley's May 12th New York Times editorial headline, don't cut Medicaid."

Thank you, Kathy.

And Robert Rushing of St. Louis City wrote, "What downtown needs is something that ties downtown together.

All the major locations are too far from each other.

There needs to be a trolley or special easy access buses.

Thank you, Robert.

You can write us care of Nine PBS 63108.

Don't forget those emails, donnybrook@ninepbs.org.

And on social media, use donnybrookst.

Call the nline at 314512994.

Listen to us on your favorite podcast source.

And don't forget to tune in to the Nine PBS YouTube channel.

We call it Last Call.

And uh this week we'll be discussing curfews for kids in downtown and at Six Flags and also Bill's thoughts on seniors uh trying to freeze their property taxes in the county.

Happy birthday to Bill.

Many happy returns, but go Cardinals.

We'll see you next week at this time.

Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of NinePBS.