Jeffrey Goldberg: I want to talk about part of the strategic problem is that Donald Trump has alienated some allies.

NATO doesn't seem very interested in this.

And I want to play a sound bite from Donald Trump, because, to me, this is probably the most Trump thing that Trump has ever done.

This is in a meeting with the Japanese this week.

Let's just listen to that.

Reporter: Why didn't you tell U.S.

allies in Europe and Asia, like Japan, about the war before attacking Iran?

So, we are very confused about we, Japanese citizens.

Donald Trump, U.S.

President: Well, one thing, you don't want to signal too much, you know?

When we go in, we went in very hard and we didn't tell anybody about it because we wanted surprise.

Who knows better about surprise than Japan, okay?

Why didn't you tell me about Pearl Harbor, okay?

Right?

He's asking me, do you believe in surprise?

I think much more so than us.

And we had a surprise and we did.

Jeffrey Goldberg: You know, I mean, it's like, I don't know what to -- Vivian Salama: I mean, it was a surprise.

Jeffrey Goldberg: That was a surprise.

That was a surprise attack on a meeting.

That sort of thing obviously makes allies not want to come to the Oval Office, much less work in an alliance with.

So, the question is, our allies right now, those who need the Strait of Hormuz open even more than we do directly, what is the mood in your reporting that you're seeing in terms of coming in and helping?

Vivian Salama: There's definitely concern and there's been a lot of reluctance.

You know, NATO allies especially we're very reticent to take part or even offer any support to the United States military, whether it's their bases or, you know, the Gulf countries didn't want the U.S.

in their airspace, even in the lead up to this.

And so, over time, they found that they have little choice, especially with the economic crunch worsening.

They're now -- you know, you have a few nations, the U.K.

leading the charge offering escorts through the straits.

The Gulf countries are now kind of putting one foot forward because they have no other choice or being bombarded.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Yes.

Vivian Salama: And so that's where it stands.

But President Trump is definitely taking notes and listing names as far as countries that did drag their feet because this is what he's complained about all along.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Right.

Idrees Ali: I think the alliances were still fractured going into this, right?

We had the Greenland issue, his closeness to China, to Russia.

So, you're going into this crisis with no goodwill, and we're seeing that lack of goodwill really play a part.

Jeffrey Goldberg: So, one of the questions is, how much of the NATO response -- just not only NATO, but the NATO response, a reaction, a resentment reaction to the way he's treated allies, and how much of it is just we didn't want to invade Iran right now, like we're not -- this is not our game?

David Sanger: Well, part of it was just the absence of consultation, which was the essence of the question.

And, by the way, I lived in Japan for six years.

I'm sure I violated many of their rules, but one of them is no Pearl Harbor jokes.

So, you know -- Jeffrey Goldberg: I would imagine if you're trying to get something done -- David Sanger: Yes, right.

Jeffrey Goldberg: -- with a country that's currently an ally.

David Sanger: But in this particular case, he could have done what George W. Bush did, which was go around the world and try to build a coalition of the willing and make the case before the military action without telegraphing exactly when he was going to attack.

And that worked some for Bush and didn't work with other places.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Yes.

David Sanger: But in this case, no one got consulted.

And so now they're being told, well, you are going to come in to go do -- finish the job for us, and we won't tell you quite what our strategy is for getting out.

Jeffrey Goldberg: And also even if you help us the next day, I might come back to Greenland.

Sorry, I'm laughing because Steve and I covered the Bushes, both Bushes and their efforts to build coalitions in the Middle East.

And as you were talking, Steve is kind of laughing over there, the idea of Donald Trump going around the world and building alliances is -- Stephen Hayes: No, it's inconceivable.

I mean, look, how many times in the past two weeks have we heard him say, we don't need them, we can do it on our own, we don't care, oh, we need them, they'd be smart to do it.

I mean, it's just change.

Look, if it's about trust, goodwill, and common interests, we don't have any trust and there's good reason they don't trust us.

There was reporting this week that the Danes were sending uniform military from allied countries to Greenland in anticipation of a possible U.S.

invasion of Greenland.

They were doing this for a reason because Donald Trump had continuously said that that was on the table or refused to take it off the table.

Goodwill, as Idrees says, he doesn't build goodwill.

He's gone out of his way to insult our allies, particularly in Europe.

Now, we're at the point where there are some common interests and they've got to now look out for their interests, however much they must be frustrated about the comments that he's made and the way that he's sort of given on the back of the -- Jeffrey Goldberg: Right.

Vivian Salama: There was one incident in particular where he recently suggested that allies didn't do enough to support the U.S.

in Afghanistan, and that offended allies around the world.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Oh, I mean, that offended among others the Danes who actually -- Vivian Salama: The Danes especially died in combat.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Steve, stay on this point about dissension and alliance building.

He's having a little bit trouble even in MAGA world building support for this, not just the Joe Kent issue, but there's not a lot of overenthusiasm.

Am I wrong in saying that?

Stephen Hayes: Yes.

I mean, I would make the distinction between sort of a MAGA rank and file who have flipped.

They were skeptical of this war when it started.

Donald Trump said he's for it.

He's talked about why we needed to do it, and they're now for it overwhelmingly.

If you look at sort of MAGA influencer world, the Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly set, they have been -- they started, I would say, skeptical and suggested that this would be a betrayal of America first.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Well, and they say that Israel is manipulating him.

Stephen Hayes: They're saying that Israel's manipulating him.

I mean, they're sort of now at the point where they're making every argument they possibly can, but, you know, really who's the fool here that they expected consistency from Donald Trump, that he thought that they thought that he believed these things that he said, that he had a worldview.

This is a personalist foreign policy.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Right.

I want to go to another related issue, which is Cuba, because the lazy Susan is going to come around again, I think, and it's going to be Cuba.

He has talked about taking Cuba.

He talked about it this week.

Vivian, you've been studying this problem for a while.

Do you think that he's actually going to kind of pull a Venezuela with Cuba in the coming months?

Vivian Salama: Yes.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Okay.

Any -- Vivian Salama: While we are all looking over here in the Middle East, the wheels are very much in motion for a Venezuela-style operation in Cuba that would potentially result in regime change.

Now, they are leaving the door open to a negotiated settlement.

They've been very public about that.

President Miguel Diaz-Canel of Cuba came out this week and acknowledged for the first time publicly that he is talking to the administration.

So, they're hoping -- Jeffrey Goldberg: So, the pressure has worked in that sense.

Vivian Salama: It has worked.

But whether or not that means he gets to keep his job, that remains to be said.

Jeffrey Goldberg: I assume, by the way, that successor failure in Iran will very much determine whether there's an appetite for hemispheric adventure.

Idrees Ali: Yes, I agree.

I mean, like he's had successes, right?

Venezuela and Iran was a success.

This might be his first major military failure potentially, right?

And if that fails, how do you do regime change in Cuba?

It's tough.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Right.

David, in our last minute, I want to turn to a subject that actually affects all of us.

A judge just ruled that the Pentagon is violating the First Amendment rights of the press by banning members of the Pentagon Press Corps.

We've all been in the Pentagon Press Corps at one time or another.

Idrees is currently in it.

Tell me about that decision and what it means for the press in the First Amendment.

David Sanger: Well, you know, this was critically important because what was going on here essentially was a test of the question of can you have a free society without a free press?

We had a government that wanted to control the press corps within the Pentagon.

And the judge's ruling is sweeping in its wording.

It's a great reminder of what an editor of mine, Bill Keller, former executive editor of the Times, once said, which I think goes very well for this, which is, there's a reason the First Amendment is first, and this opinion drove that home and told the Pentagon, give them their passes back.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Well, Idrees, it looks like you're going to have to put on a suit and tie again and go back to work.

We're going to have to leave it there.

We'll be back on this subject, of course.

But thanks to our guests for joining me.