moving at break neck speed Donald Trump is pushing revolutionary and destabilizing ideas while trying to bend Washington and the world to his will Tonight we'll take stock of the president's first 100 days his most important decisions and what else he's planning Next this is Washington Week with The Atlantic Corporate funding provided by in 1995 two friends set out to make wireless coverage accessible to all with no long-term contracts nationwide coverage and 100% US-based customer support Consumer Cellular Freedom Calls Certified financial planner professionals are proud to support Washington Week with the Atlantic CFP professionals are committed to acting in their clients best interest More information at let'smakeupplan.org Additional funding is provided by Coup and Patricia Euan through the Euan Foundation committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities Sandra and Carl Delay Magnus Rose Hershel and Andy Shrieves Robert and Susan Rosenbomb the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you Thank you once again from the David M Rubenstein studio at Weta in Washington editor-inchief of The Atlantic and moderator Jeffrey Goldberg Good evening and welcome to Washington Week So technically we're not at 100 days yet That's on Tuesday If the president's goal is to exhaust everyone well mission accomplished It's hard to reckon with how much has changed in the economy and foreign relations across the institutions that have made us a knowledgebased democracy Tonight we'll discuss what Trump has accomplished and what he hopes to achieve in the remaining 1,362 days left in his second term Um I want to make a brief note Some very online Washington Week viewers may have caught wind of the fact that along with two colleagues I interviewed President Trump yesterday The reason people even know about this interview is that President Trump helpfully posted about it before we even showed up in the Oval Office That interview will be part of a story that comes out on Monday on the Atlantic.com Joining me tonight for our discussion on the first 100 days Caitlyn Collins an anchor and the chief White House correspondent for CNN Steven Hayes is the editor of The Dispatch Oz Mahalid is a White House correspondent for NPR and a co-host of the NPR Politics podcast And Ashley Parker is my colleague and a staff writer at The Atlantic and also one of my co-conspirators in the White House meeting yesterday Um thanks to everyone for for joining us Special White House correspondents weekend episode We have nothing different actually Uh just noting that for the record Um Ashley I I I I do want to um note that we had a weird day Yeah it was a real journey It was a journey It was an emotional journey Um and um I I I wanted to ask you one question because I think a lot of people did see this this post from Donald Trump on Truth Social I won't read the whole thing um we'll put it up on the screen but um you know about 4 hours before we are scheduled to go see the president in the Oval Office he basically has a puts up a long rant against us and saying that we're bad reporters but he's having us come in as a kind of a competition with himself And and I mean he also totally blew up our spot Yeah Right You want to get in and out Yeah Yeah Yeah Exactly Yeah we want Yes we want to we want to just sneak in and sneak out the um and what's interesting is cuz you know I you've done this as well I've interviewed presidents in the past in the Oval Office I don't recall President Obama ever beginning an interview by by by announcing how terrible I was and saying welcome to the White House But this is an unusual presidency What was what's what what's the thinking behind the whole like I'm going to invite them in and then I'm going to insult them before they come well um a couple things As you know with Trump everything is sort of a negotiation He's trying to woo you He's trying to browbeat you into submission but without revealing too much because I want everyone to read our cover story Um it was interesting in sort of the pleasantries as we approached the Resolute Desk he kind of said two things He he referred to his truth social post and said "Look I I did it to up the pressure u make it a little more interesting."

and then always sort of the savvy media mogul that he is he said and also it's really going to help you sell subscriptions I don't know that he's wrong No no no He's right on both counts It was just it was just an unusual way to start to start um what was a very substantive and interesting meeting We'll read about it on the Atlantic.com on Monday Um I want to turn to um first to the war on Ukraine We'll get to 100 days issues um in a minute but I want to uh I want to start with Ukraine and I want to remind um you at home um about Trump's evolving views on uh ending the war uh that Russia started against Ukraine Why don't you listen in before I even arrive at the Oval Office I will have the disastrous war between Russia and Ukraine settled You're not in a good position You don't have the cards right now With us you start having cards You're gambling with the lives of millions of people You're gambling with World War II If they're serious about peace either side or both we want to help If it's not going to happen then we're just going to move on You have no idea what pressure I'm putting on Russia We're putting a lot of pressure Can you maybe tell us we're putting a lot of pressure on Russia And then um just as one one additional note Trump posted this on Truth Social on Thursday Quote I am not happy with the Russian strikes on Kev There was a fatal attack the night before Not necessary and very bad timing And this is the notable part Vladimir stop All capital letters Stop 5,000 soldiers a week are dying Let's get the peace deal done All caps Steve you you've covered foreign affairs for a while and American presidents and their role in the world Um you ever seen this approach uh telling Vladimir Putin to stop and do you think that this has any effect whatsoever i don't think he's likely to stop Yes Um no I mean what was notable about that actually I think is what preceded it Remember going back to Easter weekend Vladimir Putin declared a ceasefire then violated the ceasefire promptly Didn't adhere to his own ceasefire And uh Donald Trump put out a statement two days later blasting Voldemir Zalinsky as the problem as the obstacle here which was sort of typical of the way that Trump has talked about the conflict from the beginning He very clearly blames the Ukrainians and hasn't been critical of Vladimir Putin I thought that was sort of the the harshest criticism we've seen of Vladimir Putin from Donald Trump but I don't think it was very substantive I think he was sort of embarrassed into having to say something because Putin continues to attack despite the fact that Donald Trump says he wants peace Caitlyn how how far can Vladimir Putin push Trump before he actually takes Ukraine's side i think if you asked that question in January or February it would be different I'm not sure he'll ever take Ukraine's side I mean there is such bad blood between President Trump and President Sinsky But as he is getting closer to his 100 days he is becoming a lot more frustrated with with President Putin and especially given those strikes I mean that message yesterday was incredibly personal telling him in those two words to to stop And so I think this is the real question at this moment is how frustrated he is by this But I think the reality is it's proving a lot harder to solve than he thought I mean he just told Time magazine that it was in justest and that he was just um being figurative when he was repeatedly saying that he could solve the war in Ukraine in 24 hours Obviously we're approaching day 100 and and they have not brokered a peace agreement And so it's a real question in terms of his frustration how that changes this process but most people seem to think if they walk away from the negotiations it only benefits Russia here right osma at what point does does this administration throw up its hands and what's the consequence of throwing its hands up so at what point they do I think they're certainly inching closer to suggesting they're going to do that though I think that's also somewhat of a negotiating tactic to build the pressure on both Ukraine and Russia in terms of what the consequences are Look I mean I think it would be extremely devastating for Ukraine if the US were to walk away The United States has been a major military supplier a major aid supporter throughout this entire conflict And you think walking away in this context would mean cutting off arm sales Uh I think that's certainly what the president has suggested There might be some Republican lawmakers willing to defy him and push back But the reason I think it could be so devastating is thus far in this first 100 days we have seen by and large most Republican lawmakers fall in line with what the president has wanted to do So my question is why would Ukraine be the one exception he campaigned on ending this war I mean to Caitlyn's point he said he'd do it on day one and I was struck by that comment too where he says "No no I was saying that figuratively."

Um and the reason he's trying to sort of backpedal on this now is look domestically many of his supporters want this war to be over Polling has shown that this is not a popular uh popular war in terms of the base of the Republican party When he said that in the campaign I took it I mean I didn't take it literally but I think he meant it literally He was going to end the war Was that fair i think he thought he could get it done even maybe before he took office I mean look at what happened with the war in Gaza and negotiating a hostage release in that situation He thought and has always argued that he's the best dealmaker the best negotiator that he could get to Putin And of course Putin experts have said all along he's playing you you know he they're just using tactics that the that they've always employed to to try to convince him that he is the one here when really you know what other world leaders have been telling Trump is that Putin is stalling and delaying and using this negotiation to just carry out his goals in Ukraine I think if you're I think if you're you're Donald Trump and you know coming in that you're prepared to make multiple concessions to Vladimir Putin and to Russia you think I'm going to be generous to Putin He'll agree to do this and we'll cut off or threaten to cut off arms to Ukraine I can do this This is a kind of a classic we see this in in foreign policy throughout history Americans projecting their own dealmaking pragmatic selves onto people who are highly ideological Yeah I think it is But it's even sort of more so because it's Donald Trump It's his own personal sense of of his dealmaking abilities He you know literally wrote or has his name on the art of the deal Right And Ashley one more question on this Just remind us why there's such bad blood between Trump and Zilinsky Or probably the more accurate way of putting this is why does Trump dislike the man so much i I mean absolutely You saw a bit of that in the Oval Office where he kicked Zillinsky out and basically said "You don't have the cards."

But what Donald Trump's operating principle is you know he he does not want America to be getting taken advantage of He he has no belief in sort of soft power or or you know exporting democracy abroad or doing anything that is not a very clear quidd proquo his senses the United States has sent billions of dollars to Ukraine and what are we getting in return and why isn't Silinski more grateful um and and that is what he is conveying There is no sense of Russia invaded with no provocation a a smaller country and it is part of the United States role as a moral leader democratic leader in the world to defend It is just we've sent you all this money and and why can't you be more appreciative i also think Trump views it very much in the lens that he's viewed a lot of things winners and losers He does not view Zalinsky as a winner I mean he's irritated with him because he feels like he got impeached over him in his first term but he does not view him as a winner He has been told by allies Ukraine cannot win this war And once that is in his brain I mean he's like of course you have to settle because you're going to lose right why why zillinsky defied him Zalinsky defied him Trump asked I was a quidd proquo Trump asked Zillinsky to launch an investigation of Joe Biden who was the going to be running for president against Donald Trump and Zalinsky said no Zullinsky wouldn't do it It is so interesting It's probably a topic for a PhD thesis not this panel discussion but it's so interesting and Steve and I have been thinking about these things for years uh together Uh the shift from McCainism to Trumpism in the Republican party McCain was these are the stalwart heroes who are standing up against the bullies And that was the ethos of the Republican party And now the ethos of the Republican party is great powers Everybody everybody else who is in the orbit of a great power just suffers Yeah You know we've left the McCainism so far Yeah I mean the ethos is sadly we're the bully and we're unapologetic about it Right Right I want to um I want to go to um your analysis of the 100 days Um how many days did I say 1362 left It's kind of a Yeah it's amazing Um that includes weekends though although we don't have weekends anymore I was going to say you're a White House correspondent It feels like we don't really We don't really have weekends Um but let's just talk about uh two main things Um I did give the panel homework by the way and I asked them not to use chat GPT to do the homework assignments No promises Yeah uh one of and and and the first part of the homework assignment was what's the most consequential uh what's the consequential action he's taken or what's the biggest change we've seen in a 100 days in American governance Let me start with with Steve Well give us I did I did what I always do on this which is not entirely answer the question directly because I have two future political office Right No I think I think sort of book end of the the first 100 days The first came on day one when he pardoned all of the January 6th um riers And then the the second part came in the Oval Office just a week ago when he announced from the Oval Office that he wants his Department of Justice to investigate two people he perceives as his political enemies in Chris Krebs and Miles Taylor And I think the the effect of those was that the first one Donald Trump was telling people if you break the law on my behalf not only will it be tolerated but it'll be rewarded And on the second he campaigned for more than a year on retribution Retribution is sort of core to Donald Trump and who he is And he's saying I'm going to use the official levers of government to get this retribution Right And can I just on Chris Krebs in particular I'm so struck by that because the reason Chris Krebs is you remind people exactly what role he played in that Yes He ran a cyber security agency under Trump and in that capacity his agency basically came out and said the 2020 election was secure and Joe Biden is the legitimate winner and and that is his crime Right Right So it it's not that he was even a a political opponent Donald Trump is punishing Chris Krebs for his acknowledgement of objective reality That's why that one stands out to me so viscerally Right Ashley since I have you um what is what is the thing that really struck you about the difference between this administration and previous administrations i mean I I have been struck well the difference between Trump now and Trump previously is one thing I've been struck by Um which is just how much more confident bold aggressive creative he has been at sort of wielding the levers of power at his disposal um to bend you know the the city the country and the world to his will And the other thing that has struck me um is Donald Trump traditionally is someone who is trying to get through the minute the hour the day He is trying to win over the person directly in front of him whether that's you and I and Michael in the Oval Office or a huge rally of MAGA supporters And what was surprising to me and again he did hit his limit but on tariffs he had the stomach at least initially for more pain as the markets plummeted and as he was getting uh you know lobbyed behind the scenes and some pretty public criticism Um he stood by that much longer than I would expected for someone who is traditionally pinballing between whatever is politically expedient in that moment Yeah the pain threshold is is something that we did not see as much in the first term It's not just on the markets It's also negative coverage in terms of the headlines before he'd be screaming his head off if he didn't like a Chiron on a show or what someone said He still gets angry about the coverage and thinks it's unfair to be clear if that hasn't changed But his pain threshold with the markets is much higher than it used to be It's not in totality given we saw what he did with the 90-day tariffs Um but he does view this stuff a little differently And I think a lot of it is he's emboldened And I think the one key part is it's not just that he won re-election It's that he won the popular vote And that has changed basically the entire way he approaches office this time Right Osma what's the most consequential so this is going to sound wonky but I do think it's really important and it kind of goes on what you were saying Ashley a moment ago which is I think that he is acting in a way that is both quicker deeper more aggressive than he did in his first term And to do this and this is where I say I think it gets wonky You know we talk a lot about executive power and the breaking of institutions And these are things that you know any political science student talks about and I think it sounds wonky and abstract but to me that is the longest possible long-term legacy that he is leaving Um you look at his interactions with courts possibly defying courts in some situations You talk about trying to sort of I would argue undermine law firms universities uh media institutions in some cases there is a total I think willingness to expand his power in ways that I didn't see in the first term Um there's just a far more uh freedom that he's engaging with But there's also I would argue um less defiance or resistance from the outside to this I mean look I'll be blunt I thought it was very surprising initially the way that we saw universities at least initially willing to appease or possibly acquies or play ball with them Um that was surprising law firms Exactly Very surprising I thought Caitlyn most consequential I I think there's so much here that it's really hard to to think of It's all consequential It's actually not but a lot of it is A lot of it in terms of what they're doing at the agencies you know firing federal workers What does that look like from the Department of Health and Human Services we don't know I do think one change that the White House feels better about that that Trump is less likely to fire people that he typically before if this had happened eight years ago with you know what happened with Signalgate as it's now known um that might have resulted in a departure but they are so resistant on giving the media or Democrats is they view it a scalp that they're not firing people but I've heard from people who think you know when it comes to the Pentagon obviously such a critical place that you never know as a president what crisis could become fall upon you that you have to deal with in that moment moment I've heard from some people who say the way that defense secretary Pete Hath is running the Pentagon the way he is choosing to to lead the president's resistance to fire him he could come to ru the day over that because if there is a real crisis they've there's been these instances where Pete Hex has has disappointed even the White House with some of his actions or responses Um there's a question about that They're standing by him for now They fought very hard to get him confirmed They're not on the verge of firing him but does the president regret actually not firing people and correcting mistakes could be something that that we see play out Yeah Osma quickly wh why haven't they fired Pete Hack Seth why haven't they fired him i I do think it goes back to the level of confidence the president feels I mean he's operating in a different way than he was last time where I think he believes also I think it's a matter of loyalty I mean he appreciates loyalty It seems thus far Hegath has been rather loyal to him and that's a key issue to him Right Right Um Steve let me ask you this question Um what's the most surprising thing i mean we all spent a lot of time especially in the you know post-election pre-inauguration period trying to game out what we thought would happen We were all to some degree or another I was very wrong thinking that this was going to be a continuation of Trump one when this feels like a very much a new kind of administration But but what's the most surprising thing so I thought I thought it was likely going to be a more aggressive Donald Trump that we saw in the second term And I'm I'm going to invite scorn and ridicule by what I say I anticipated we would see more resistance from Republicans not just on policy issues you know the tariffs and um Vladimir Putin and Russia I mean these sort of issues that have been at the core of the Republican party going back decades they're just rolling over You you rarely I mean Rand Paul will occasionally offer a gentle critique of the tariffs You'll have a senator send out a a gently worded tweet about Russia but not really fighting him on policy at all So Steve not to be scornful I or or mocking or mocking but what in the behavior of the Republican party over the previous years suggested to you that there would be more opposition so it was it was both on the policies that I think these were sort of so so core to the Republican party I mean there you know to the extent that there are Republicans who believe things in Washington many of them still believe the things that they believed when they were elected and that was a long time ago and they were Ronald Reagan Republicans and George Bush Republicans more traditional Republicans They didn't want to fight The thing that really surprised me though goes to what Osma said They're not fighting him on rule of law questions They're not fighting him on separation of powers questions these sort of fundamental issues challenging the president or even raising questions in public about what the president is doing on those sort of core constitutional questions or their Democrats have also eagerly giving away congressional prerogatives But but doesn't it seem like Democrats have also struggled I think at least in the initial weeks with how to respond and maybe that goes back to the question of speed and just um cont I mean there's so much happening at the same time but I was surprised that Democrats So you're most surprised that the speed of the demolition i think the speed of it right and we're not just talking about I mean look in his first term it felt like he was operating on the margins of of institutions I mean now you're talking about sort of dismant virtually dismantling USAD Department of Ed These are like institutions and agencies that have existed in Washington for decades And I'm just surprised by the scope and the depth of that I guess look I'll also say that I'm surprised by the ways in which Doge has operated and gone into sort of all across government I do not anticipate that that we didn't hear about on the what's the Montipython one no one's expecting no one expects the Spanish Inquisition No one expected Doge I think Right That was that was I don't know Maybe people did I did not The president's top advisers expected Well that's always that's always the case Caitlyn any any any thoughts on just the thing that really took you by surprise well I just think at this moment but here's the thing I think to reflect on when it comes to 100 days is they have been and this is the view of the White House This is not something that that I came up with This is what I've heard from multiple people is the first 100 days has been the easy stuff for them The executive orders the fights with the courts just battle it out in the court We'll we'll play it out later All of those things are coming to a head The courts are getting involved in this now It's going up to the Supreme Court in several instances Um all of that is playing out They very well may not win and they are also getting to the more difficult issues when it comes to what's happening legislatively with his tax bill Um what all of this is going to look like and so they in a in a sense at the White House they've left the glow and realized they're in the moment where um it's going to be a lot more difficult these days A perfect pivot to Ashley I'll give you the last word Um the next 100 days we're going to just do this in 100 day increments because thinking about 1300 days is a lot Um the next 100 days significantly harder polling numbers are down for him He's very sensitive to that What what where do you where do you see the real friction points well I I think everything was so streamlined in the first 100 days more or less and we have started to see the cracks signal gate kind of being the first one that feels a bit more like Trump 1.0 0 that clown car chaos of it and it is less the the streamlined the ruthless efficiency and so they are getting into a harder period as they are revealing themselves to have more challenges that have echoes of the more sort of floundering president Right Well we'll um we'll gather here in uh another 100 days and um we'll make gentle fun of Steve for his um his idealism and optimism Um but we are going to have to leave it here for now Um I want to thank our guests for for joining me and I want to thank you at home for watching us Uh and again please check out theatlantic.com on Monday for a comprehensive look at Trump's return to power reported by Ashley Parker and Michael Sheerer I'm Jeffrey Goldberg Good night from Washington Corporate funding for Washington Week with the Atlantic is provided by Consumer Cellular Certified financial planner professionals are proud to support Washington Week with the Atlantic CFP professionals are committed to acting in their clients best interest More information at let'smakeplan.org Additional funding is provided by Coup and Patricia Euan through the Euan Foundation committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities Sandra and Carl Delay Magnus Rose Herschel and Andy Shrieves Robert and Susan Rosenbomb the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you Thank you You're watching PBS